Archive 5

230. J27 mast
Posted on 25/9/2003 at 05:44:20 PM by Gordon harris
Our J27 mast has been stuffed tight with closed-cell foam.Any ideas on how to get it out? Our boat-yard man said he once tried everything and they gave up and ran the wires up the outside!

Posted on 28/9/2003 at 10:30:06 PM by dave clark
what type of foam is it ?. Is it the builders type of spray foam, if it is, if you read the directions on one of the spray cans it tells you of a spray that can be sprayed over the foam that melts it. I bet that gets messy !!

Posted on 29/9/2003 at 05:42:27 PM by gh
No, it's that white shiny hard to compress stuff. I'll look into your suggestion though, thanks.

Posted on 29/9/2003 at 10:26:26 PM by dave clark
I took a trip over to the maintenance department today to look at the can and I got it abit wrong, it says that once the foam has set scraping is the only way to get it off, sorry for the "duff jen". The spray was to use before it had cured.

231. J25 engine shut down - Volvo MD5
Posted on 30/9/2003 at 12:59:18 AM by Steve Alexander
Whenever I shut down the engine, even for a short period, I have to go below and close the raw water inlet valve on the saildrive first. If I don't do this I have a problem restarting the engine and I assume it is because it has filled with water i.e it won't turn over at all at first, only after several attempts with the starter motor will it reluctantly turn, eventually picking up revs and firing.
Having got used to the problem I make sure I turn off the water every time which is a bit of a hassle because it means diving head first into the quarter berth to reach the tap, returning to the cocpit to pull the stop lever, then back to the quarter berth to re-open the valve ready for the next engine start.
I am thinking of inserting an extra valve into the hose pipe that runs between the inlet valve and the water pump, with a control lever run to the same position as the other engine controls. Or is there something about the set up that needs changing so the problem doesn't occur? Any suggestions anyone?

Posted on 30/9/2003 at 03:13:24 PM by Dick Hicks
You have definately got a serious problem! If as you say there appears to be water getting into the engine, the water jacket must have a hole in ut allowing water to enter the engine via the ehxhaust/inlet valves. They will only last a very short time until they rust through/disentegrate/stop the engine permanently!! I am not familiar with the MD5 so perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree.
Is the exhaust elbow OK? - remove it and check it is sending the cooling water down the exhaust pipe and not into the engine(which I suspect could happen if it has corroded thro' internally). Does the exhaust line slope downwards from the exhaust elbow to the silencer/water trap?
Definately fit another valve near where you can access it easily, but much better to find and cure the problem.
Whereabouts are you? Good Luck and keep us informed.

Posted on 30/9/2003 at 05:25:18 PM by Steve Alexander
I'm in Portsmouth. The engine was stripped down earlier this year and rebuilt - new exhaust elbow included, which certainly takes water away down to the water trap so that's not the problem. The rebuild also included a new cylinder liner, piston/rings etc and all waterways were thoroughly cleaned out.
If water were getting in to the chamber via the valves wouldn't there be some evidence during normal running? Apart from the shut down problem the engine fires first time brilliantly and has run well all season - up to six hours running at a time.

Posted on 1/10/2003 at 08:00:07 AM by Dick Hicks
Hmm - why not go back to the people who rebuilt your engine and complain? If it's only happened after the rebuild then perhaps it's something they did?
Also try posting your query on the Volvo Penta Owners Club - www.volpen.org.uk
Or, better still, on www.ybw.com - where if you post this question on the Practical Boatowners forum you will get lots of answers, there are a lot of knowledgable people on the ybw forums - it's a good site.

Posted on 1/10/2003 at 09:00:12 AM by Steve Alexander
Not much good complaining - I did the work myself! Good idea about widening the search for answers though, I'll follow up your suggestions.
This problem doesn't occur every time, sometimes I have shut down without closing the water inlet and it has restarted as normal. Bit of a puzzle really.

Posted on 30/9/2003 at 09:51:11 PM by Colin Bishop
Have you thought about getting an outboard....? Like I used to have (sigh)

Posted on 2/10/2003 at 11:33:04 AM by Ralph Wilson
Don't start me off . . . do you really want to go back to an outboard? Noisy, smelly, poor fuel consumption, petrol on boat, lack of electricity, no propwash over rudder, needs replacing regularly, no use in big seas etc etc . . If you still want an outboard, want to swap boats <g> ?
Ralph (J25 with outboard).

232. J27 with Wheel Steering??
Posted on 2/10/2003 at 08:33:02 PM by Dick Hicks
Just got PBO, and there is a Jaguar 27 with wheel steering advertised for just under 11k in the Southend area! Anyone seen a J27 with wheel steering?

Posted on 2/10/2003 at 08:47:19 PM by hilary
There's a Catalina 27 on our pontoon at Southsea with a wheel. The C27 website in USA shows many, and there's message board chat of conversions.

Posted on 6/10/2003 at 03:35:18 PM by Laurie
The Catalinas had wheel steering as an option on the original 27, subsequently this became standard on American (Catalinas) boats, not on Jaguars. Note there is a Catalina 30, advertised as a Jaguar also with wheel steering....

233. J21 wooden??
Posted on 6/10/2003 at 03:25:21 PM by Tony Cole
Just getting back into sailing after a 6 year absence and I have been offered a plywood jag 21, appears to be quite sound but needs a lot of cosmetic work, have researched your excellent web site but can find no mention of 21's being built in wood, can anyone offer any info ?

Posted on 13/10/2003 at 05:58:01 PM by Paul
I've found the mention of a wooden J21 in PBO (june 1999). It says that John Mullins' wooden one-off was called "Pirate" - does your boat have that name?

Posted on 9/10/2003 at 09:51:57 AM by Jeremy Knight
This sounds facinating. I am sure loads of people would be interested in seeing her. If you buy her, any chance of taking some digital photos and sending them to Laurie for posting on the site? Where abouts in the world will you be sailing

Posted on 11/10/2003 at 10:36:05 AM by Tony Cole
Just checked out the sails and the sail number is 1 ! previous owner believes that the boat was orginally built in 1975 and was used as a 'plug' for a fibre glass mould. From this, is it possible to assume that it was the first 21 built ? Tony

Posted on 11/10/2003 at 03:15:22 PM by Laurie
This sounds most probable........

Posted on 10/10/2003 at 07:56:09 PM by Tony Cole
Hopefully the purchase will be concluded on Sat 11th Oct.
Will take some photos shortly and post on the site, at the moment she isn't to pretty to look ay as alot of paint has been stripped. She has a 2 cabin arrangement with a fully varnished interior that needs brightening up a bit but will make an interesting winter project. Our intentions are to trail-sail her to Cumbria, Scotland, North Wales and occasional sorties to Cornwall & Devon.

Posted on 8/10/2003 at 07:47:03 PM by paul
I understand the original boat as designed by John Mullins was built in wood, Eric Birch of CYB liked it and adapted the design for production in GRP to become the Jaguar 21. Don't know how many were built in wood but at least one was I suppose! Does the boat have chines like most plywood boats do?

Posted on 8/10/2003 at 07:54:44 PM by Tony Cole
Thanks for your reply, the boat does have some chines but they are fairly rounded, the bottom appears to be double diagonal and the topsides sheet planked in ply. Spent a few hours going over the boat today and cosmetics aside, she appears to be very sound and has a resonable inventory. A purchase price has been agreed subject to condition of sails and engine. The boat was apparently built in 1978 and judging from various pointers has had very little use.

Posted on 8/10/2003 at 03:02:53 PM by Laurie
Hi, the reason you haven't found anything is that it is a new one on me, & I know nothing about this: is there any chance of any pictures (email direct as per homepage)? I bet it looks really pretty!

234. Tall Rigs, Short Rigs and all that Jazz (contd)
Posted on 6/10/2003 at 05:32:39 PM by Geoff Hunt
Hi All, Thought you'd like to know, I have had an answer from CATALINA YACHTS on this subject (text follows) that pretty much confirms what Lowell said in his e-mail a while back.
===========================
Geoff,
We offer standard and tall rigs on our boats to allow those who sail in less windy areas the availability to get as much power from the wind as possible. The addition of a meter to the top of the mast results in an almost 3 sq. meter increase in the sail area. I'm sure that would get a similar answer from Frank Butler. However, if you would like I can show this to Frank and he will get in contact with you.

Good Sailing, Kent
===========================
Out of curiosity, since receiving Lowell's original reply, I did a few calculations a little while ago and came to the conclusion that difference between the two rigs in terms of the centre of effort and consequently the effect on the balance and handling of the boat was insignificant. Hope you've all had a good sailing season...
All the best
Geoff

Posted on 6/10/2003 at 08:31:20 PM by bernadette
geoff, thanks 4 confirming my thoughts and observations. a week or so ago we came back from the folly in about a force 3 to 4. we had one reef in and were doing 8 knots with the boat feeling comfortable. strangely enough after passing another 27' boat, they decided to put a reef in their sail! (they didn't catch us up again though)

235. Jaguars are Fast!
Posted on 16/10/2003 at 01:53:20 PM by Jeremy Knight
I followed a Jaguar 27 doing 40 knots to windward today. Yes you read that right, 40 knots to windward. We all know they are quite fast, but this amazed even me! And the explanation for this amazing feat - It was on a lorry trailer going up the M27. Its name was Beaujolais (from Cowes), and it had a Deacons sold sticker on the back, so I guess there is a new potential owner for the association out there (If you are reading this Mr/Ms New Owner "Hello")
I tried to put an owners association leaflet on board. But what with driving at the same time and the wind, it was very difficult. I eventually got concerned that the rossers would pull me over, so stopped trying. Tried to get a picture instead. But the flash kept on reflecting in the windscreen. Apart from ruining every picture, I found the reflection cut down on my vision, which in turn led to me swerving rather a lot. The lorry driver (Trying to be helpful as lorry drivers often are) then started making hand signals to me - I think he was trying to indicate that I should take 2 shots, certainly 2 was in the message somewhere because he was holding up 2 fingers. Anyway I gave it up as a bad job. Nice looking boat though. Lovely lines and shiny woodwork.

Posted on 17/10/2003 at 01:53:42 PM by Dick Hicks
Yes - and I am still thrashing ny friends Contessa 28; left the Deben together and reached Harwich Halfpenny Pier at least 20 minutes before them. Moored up and was drinking tea before they moored alongside. They left first on the return journey, we overtook them and moored up ten minutes before them again.

Posted on 20/10/2003 at 03:37:14 PM by Hilary
yes.. we were pleased to see the "speedometer" on Salve Nauta reach 6 knots to windward with no 2 jib and 2 reefs. We have been to Holland, and spied a few Jag 22's in marinas, but no 27's.

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 08:30:09 PM by bernadette
beaujolais lived on the folly reach and we previously tried to interest them in membership. possibly the new owners will be interested!

Posted on 20/10/2003 at 10:57:48 AM by Kev Hall
When I bought Azuri at the start of the season I was told it would be a good first family cruising keelboat. She was the first one at the Yacht club and I recieved a few "nice boat the Jaguar 27" Set off with others from the club on weekends away, and she beat a few of the more experienced sailors with so called better boats ! A good friend even had to put his engine on to keep up when we put our spinnaker up. In fairness it was only blowing a 2/3 and he owns a Macwester 26, big heavy boat. It's really nice when we arrived at a new port on a weekend away with other Yacht club members, coming along to meet us with comments like " she goes really well!!" You just wait till next season !! When the new Genoa comes out and the kids have cracked flying the spinnaker.

236. J22 Keel
Posted on 16/10/2003 at 08:22:49 PM by Jack Saunders
Had my J22keel and keel bolt checked (26 years old) keel hole is slightly oval. Seems obvious to me that the bolt and hole should be well greased to prevent wear - why have I not seen this recommended anywhere? Is there a technical reason why marine grease shold not be used ?

Posted on 16/10/2003 at 10:06:09 PM by Laurie
Because of access. The keels have lasted 20 odd years to date, & I'll bet most have never seen grease there, & it probably wouldn't last the season in any case. However, if someone modified the access in someway to make it easier, I see no reason why not. Have you seen any of the articles on keel inspection/wear & replacement?

237. j18.5 ?
Posted on 17/10/2003 at 09:20:55 PM by mick
I have recently seen an ad for a jaguar 18.5 ft but looking at this site there is no mention of one. Is there such a boat.

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:15:34 PM by Laurie
Not as far as I'm aware: however the company that used to build Jaguar Yachts, variously known as Russell Marine, Canvey Yacht Builders, CYB: all owned by Eric Birch, (which is completely separate from the current builders)built another range of boats, called Alacrity & Vivacity, & some of these were in the 16-20' range. They have their own separate assoc.

238. J27 Keel Bolts
Posted on 18/10/2003 at 10:22:39 PM by Kev Hall
Our Jaguar 27 came out of the water this month to get a good start on the work to be done over the winter. When she was put on her yard trailer I noticed a little bubbling coming from the join between the keel and the hull, nothing too major (I'm praying) but my thoughts were the keel bolts needed to be checked. Am I right or is this normal, if not does anyone know the torque settings of the keel bolts for a Jag 27 ???
Have had a great first season in Azuri, had quite a steep learning curve being our first keel boat but can't wait for next season already !! Will certainly be joining the Association in November. Thanks in advance any advice greatly appreciated. Kev

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:21:34 PM by Laurie
Keel bolts is /are a big issue. Were they checked in the survey? If original, & you/surveyor has doubts, they can be x rayed, but this is expensive, & it would be simpler to pull them out & replace them. However if they are clean & there is no sign of them weeping in the bilges, then I would not worry un duly. If the bubbling occurred as she settled on the keel, then I wouldn't worry. Scrape out the seam, dry & apply sikalex along the seam prior to antifouling.......

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:35:54 PM by Kev Hall
Thanks Laurie, no doubts or worries from the survey. Slight bubbling as she settled on keel so I will scrape seam and sikaflex as you suggested.....

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:48:24 PM by Laurie
If that is what happened, then that sounds perfectly normal, & I redo mine every couple of seasons.

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:51:33 PM by Laurie
-don't forget to check that they are pulled up good & tight: I forgot to mention that! It would be ideal to do that whilst in the slings: the yard may even do it, or again , prior to launching.....?

Posted on 20/10/2003 at 00:25:51 AM by Kev Hall
Will make sure they are tight in the yard and in the slings before she gets craned back into the water, if possible. What do you mean by redo them every couple of seasons ? Tighten the bolts up ? replace the nuts ? Sorry if it's a daft question, first season with keelboats.

Posted on 20/10/2003 at 05:53:10 PM by gh
read somewhere yesterday (forgotten where) that you can check your keel bolts by tapping the top of each bolt with a ball-pien hammer. A dead sound means problem, (a bit like the railway wheeltappers). Just remembered where I read it. John Ridgeway on his round the world cruise with family and friends.

Posted on 22/10/2003 at 02:16:57 AM by Kev Hall
Will try that as well, thanks, just hope I'm not opening a can of worms for myself here !

239. J27 Isomat Mast
Posted on 19/10/2003 at 02:42:00 PM by Holger Pittelkau
Good day, I own a Jaguar 27 built in 1984. During recent maintenance I decided to take the mast off in order to renew the stays. Whilst the mast was lying in the marina one of the spreader and the hinged mast step disappeared. I have since been trying to locate a dealer where I could order the missing parts but the only company I could get hold of is Rig-Rite in Canada and they do not seem to hold the correctly dimensioned parts in stock. Does anybody know of any other dealer that can provide the needed parts for my Janguar?

Posted on 19/10/2003 at 05:25:28 PM by Laurie
There are a couplke of UK mast manufacturers in the UK that I'd be happy to recommend, & they appear in our recommended suppliers guide sent out to our members: however you may also do well to contact catalina direct, whose details appear, I believe on our links page.....? Any problems, come back.......

Posted on 27/10/2003 at 06:40:01 PM by Grahame Lloyd
I need some parts for an Isomat mast. Unfortunately I can't find my suppliers list. Are there any known suppliers. What about putting the suppliers list on our site?

Posted on 30/10/2003 at 10:38:22 PM by laurie
If we put everything on site, there'd be precious little for the paying members. The suppliers list is (as an updated? copy) sent out with every SEACATS, or I can email a copy as soon as I get my pooter back..............

Posted on 2/11/2003 at 09:35:17 AM by Grahame Lloyd
I don't follow your first comment - I am a paying memeber!!

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 07:12:11 AM by laurie
then I will be happy to email you another copy as soon as I get my pooter back. As I said, an updated version will be with SEACATS

240. J22 Design fault
Posted on 24/10/2003 at 01:26:02 PM by Robert Pike
The sale of my early 70s Jaguar 22 (Alacrity really!)has just fallen through 'cos the buyers surveyor says that the hull is too weak for the keel assembly and the deck bracing is too week for the mast!!! A basic design fault. Expensive bulkheads need to be fitted. I would be glad of comments from anyone.

Posted on 27/10/2003 at 11:29:37 AM by Laurie
Whilst I can't speak about a specific boat I've not seen, the J22/Catalina22 design was a very robust design, which is one of the reasons so many survive today. It is arguably, in terms of nos built, the most successful cruiser. Period. The deck is balsa cored, a common practice even now, & sometimes this can delaminate/depress under the mast step, but this is not a major problem as the mast is supported by a substantial kingpost below; so I'm at a loss to know what is meant by deck "bracing"? The hull/deck is further strenghtened by the 1/2 bulkheads & internal mouldings for the furniture.
The keel box can crack, but they've been hanging onto that keel for 30 years now.......
Like all yachts, the 22 does have some design faults, but inherent robustness of the design was not one of them.

Posted on 24/10/2003 at 02:05:47 PM by Steve O'Connell
Strange - it's been around for 30+ years with no ill effect! My latest condition report didn't mention anything about weakness - in fact the surveyor said that the cracking was non structural and cosmetic only.

241. J24 mark11?
Posted on 26/10/2003 at 10:08:17 AM by Steve Lacey
Looking to upgrade with a spinaker anyone able to advise if Possible and at what cost Sailing details is it a good option? any sailing advise in force 5 to 7 found ok with two reefs in and Genoa furled a few turns

Posted on 27/10/2003 at 11:19:25 AM by Laurie
see recommended suppliers directory (if you are a member?) & anyone will be able to advise of cost........if you're not a member, then hey!! Become a member!!

Posted on 26/10/2003 at 07:29:36 PM by Richard Green
Would be interested to know how you get on,may do same with mine next season

242. J22 TRAILER

Posted on 30/10/2003 at 10:59:23 PM by Christine
What trailer do I need to pull a J22?

Posted on 1/11/2003 at 07:07:04 PM by steve edwards
Christine I can't tell you exactly what you need one of the trailer suppliers is best to spec something but my own experience is as follows. I use a series 2 Discovery TD5 to tow, I am reasonably experienced and have towed caravans for thirty years. The current one is a Swift Conquerer which is about as big as they come, I only mention this to add I find the boat a lot harder work to tow than the caravan. The setup I have is ideal for towing so if considering towing with a conventional car it might pay to try to borrow something to try with. I am miles away on Rutland water, but if you haven't got any other options you are welcome to have a play. Make a weekend of it and we can all go sailing as well. My boat trailer came with the boat single axle 13" wheels with carpeted boards and a single roller for the bow.
Based on all the above I would definately go for a twin axle if you intend to do any more than local trips and launches. If you intend to trail long distances then the carpeted boards supply a better support than rollers which are point contact. However launch & retrival is much easier with rollers.
If you end up with single axle & the trailer doesn't already have legs at the rear get from Northern tools they are about 6 quid each need two bolts to fit and mean if you get the weight point wrong you aren't embarrassed by a stern on the ground, a broken rudder, a bow 8ft in the air and no easy way to get it down, trust me (I'm a doctor) I've been there. These are only my own opinions I have no qualifications in this field. Hope it's of some use. Steve

Posted on 1/11/2003 at 09:28:05 PM by Christine
thanks for your kind offer Steve, as always you are a great help and a gentleman. Which reminds me I still have to post that keel template back to you, it's been sitting here in an envlelope for ages. It's in the post, promise. I'm actually considering selling "Penjack" after a great season sailing with the children, but the gentleman interesed in her would like a trailer, so I thought I'd better ask about. good luck with your keel, you haven't got barnacles stuck up the housing have you? Actually thinking about it, your not salt water are you! Anway, best wishes Christine

Posted on 2/11/2003 at 08:46:47 PM by steve edwards
I hope this doesn't mean you are leaving us. I will quite miss our chats.

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 09:41:02 PM by Christine
Probably not at the rate we are going, I just can't find a boat with a cockpit better suited to twins than the one on our little jag.

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 09:57:03 PM by Christine
Cross out the last message, just spotted the Jag 265, aft cabin the lot, just what we are looking for, pity I couldn't afford one, though wonder if I can get my steve to build me a kit one, he's good with a tube of glue. may stay a jag owner yet!

Posted on 8/11/2003 at 08:13:23 PM by steve edwards
make sure he starts with lots of sticky back plastic & empty loo roll tubes. Both essential items for a project of this nature. Shall I send the keel template back?

243. New Mainsail Required - what shall I get ?
Posted on 31/10/2003 at 12:23:43 AM by Ralph Wilson
Out sailing last weekend, gybing to go round the S Cardinal through the channel between Great and Little Cumbrae (just by Largs if you're from the south coast) and rrrrip flap flap, the mainsail's blown ! Along a seam, but if that one's gone, then the others are going (and I've been after a new mainsail for a while !).
Now then, I'll probably buy from Kemp again, but can anybody convince me or not of the benefits (and use!) of lazyjacks, fully battened, etc etc. The sail I have has just 2 small battens in the top, goes up on sliders in the isomat mast track and I don't race, normally there's just the 2 of us (and the Bernese Mountain Dog) on board our J25. Any hints/tips/suggestions/views/ opinions welcome!

Posted on 31/10/2003 at 04:45:17 PM by Jeremy Knight
I would have thought the lazyjacks system would have been vital for you. It would at least save your pooch getting all those sail ties caught up in his paws. And if he is anything like my dog, I bet he can't tie a proper slip knot for toffee.
Seriously - lazyjacks are such a luxury, no faffing round as you come back to port trying to furl the sail onto the boom with a hooley blowing. I have used them before and would fit them in a flash on my Jag (if I had the money). Best go the whole hog if you can and get ones with an integral zip up boom cover.
As for fully battened, my personal view is that the jag is not big enough to make the easier hoisting worth the money. A bit of a better sail shape with fully battened of course, but hey! who's racing.

Posted on 31/10/2003 at 09:01:05 PM by ralph wilson
Spoke to Kemps today - they suggested that fully battened would not be a good idea because the mast track does not come far enough down towards the boom - I have to remove some sliders to reef at the moment and this would still be the case with cars for the battens.
Our dog's not much use at knots, apart from the ones he ties in the mainsheet. He's nearly trained to change sides when we tack though !

Posted on 1/11/2003 at 08:50:29 PM by steve edwards
I bought TBag J22 with a year old main from Crusader. They modified it to fully battened and slides with a lazy jack and pack away very reasonable and good quality. I fitted deck organiser and spinlock (its late can't think of the word) jammy things. Main halyard and down haul back in cockpit. Arrival at mooring now quite spectacular up wind geny furled main down buoy picked up and all single handed (in my dreams).
It does work really well next move is the lazy jacks back to the cockpit, not certain if they would be best routed along the boom.

Posted on 1/11/2003 at 08:55:56 PM by ralph wilson
Thanks all, I already have all the lines led back to the cockpit and on jammy things(!). Sorry to be a real duffer but how does one use lazy jacks ? Are they a replacement for the topping lift? It's probably totally obvious to someone who has used them before . . .

Posted on 2/11/2003 at 05:22:38 PM by steve edwards
you could use them in place of the topping lift, but its easier to keep both. If you make a shortish loop with a jam cleat between the topping lift and the boom you can then release from the cockpit. Slack off lazy jacks raise main slack off topping lift. lowering is the reverse procedure finishing with tensioning the jacks which effectively smothers the main. I have seen an article using rings and shockcord if anyones interested I will dig it out.

Posted on 3/11/2003 at 03:29:01 PM by ralph wilson
thanks Steve, could you send it to Laurie for the next Seacats issue, I'm sure he would welcome some stuff. If not, could you send it to me !

Posted on 3/11/2003 at 07:43:34 PM by steve edwards
Will hunt it down may take a day or two

Posted on 3/11/2003 at 07:52:56 PM by steve edwards
Sods law found it straight away. Teds sailing page see link below. If you think Laurie might be interested pass it on.
Steve

Posted on 3/11/2003 at 07:54:34 PM by steve edwards
Oops that didn't work must try harder.
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/TedsSailingPage/lazyjack.html

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 07:08:38 AM by laurie
.have people an aversion to mailing me? Do I need to change my "e" soap?

Posted on 8/11/2003 at 08:06:13 PM by steve edwards
Laurie Love you really, concerned with keep sending you dross you are busy enough. If you think any of my stuff warrants an airing quite happy to mail you.
PS Anglian water have taken so much out of Rutland water that we can't launch & it looks as though boats on moorings may be stuck there. If it doesn't rain soon we might have to join you chaps on the salty stuff. Trouble is there are nasty things like tides & waves worrying for novices like me!
Regards Steve

Posted on 9/11/2003 at 08:52:31 AM by laurie
eeeeeeeeaaaaasy!!!! Seriously, the more stuff I have available for SEACATS, the site, newsletters, or whatever, the better it is for all.............

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 02:58:48 PM by ralph wilson
Steve, thanks very much. I have today ordered a new mainsail from Kemp and their Kemp Packaway sail cover including lazyjacks. They do a 'Power Main' which has nearly full length battens which is supposed to be suited to 'older' boats with high mast track gates and have most of the pros (& cons) of fully battened mains. if anyone is interested they're offering 15% discount on orders before the end of Nov . . .

244. sugar scoop?
Posted on 4/11/2003 at 03:27:32 PM by Hilary

Do any of the Jaguar models have a sugar scoop as in this picture? Tom from the C27 USA message board wants to know. Good wind at the weekend hey?

Posted on 5/11/2003 at 02:56:24 PM by Jeremy Knight
Looking at the picture, I see the gentleman in question does have a reasonably ample stomach, but I wouldn't have gone so far as to have said he had a sugar scoop. Thank you for referring to all us gentlemen members as the "Jaguar models" though - very flattering.

Posted on 5/11/2003 at 08:22:32 PM by Hilary
What a sweet reply... tee hee. I have shared your reply with Tom who I am sure will be impressed by this erudite reply so typical of this website!

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 06:59:20 AM by laurie
....but to be boring, the answer is no. The 28 & white Silk have drawn out...how should one put it, Jeremy?..after sections....?

Posted on 7/11/2003 at 07:01:25 AM by laurie
.....except of course, I lie. The 265 does.Did. Will have...............

245. J27 Window seals
Posted on 8/11/2003 at 11:14:16 AM by John Banner
Is it possible to obtain replacement seals for my Mk1 windows? I believe they are the original windows.

Posted on 8/11/2003 at 04:59:58 PM by dave clark
Hello John, If the new jag boat builders can't help or the catalina web site, try WILKS (rubber plastics) manufacturers on 01621 869609 or SEALS PLUS DIRECT speak to a chap called Phil Howard on 01425 280415. Good Luck DC

Posted on 9/11/2003 at 08:48:12 AM by laurie
yes is the answer to our question; see the members reccommended suppliers directory,&/or of course the above!
Give me a shout if you have any problems.

246. J22 GRP bilge keels
Posted on 9/11/2003 at 07:29:13 PM by phillip walter
Could some kind J22 owner advise about the two GRP keels fitted on some J22s. I have just bought on such and cannot help but they must act as brakes. Is this so? can I easily remove or hack off? Thanks in advance for info. Regards Phillip

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 11:10:10 AM by laurie
....if I had a £ for every time that this has come up! Someone is surely not looking in the archives! The short answer is yes; most are bonded on; they were there to protect the hull when drying out.

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 12:52:29 PM by phillip walter
Sorry about asking a time worn question about the keels but I did trawl the archives and only found one reference which said some J 22s had them. Not what effect they had on the boats performance or how to remove them.Thanks for your comments Laurie.   Regards Phillip

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 04:30:49 PM by GHH
Phillip; I guess these bilge 'keels' are about 25mm wide X 25/50 mm high? I don't know about the J22's but on most boats that had them they were designed to take the same line as the flow of water round the hull to minimise drag. They were intended, as has already been said, to provide some sort of protection when resting on the bottom. In fact, they were not particularly effective for this purpose.
If they were a bolt-on or stick-on extra, you may get away with it, but be vary careful that you make the minimum possible disturbance to the external skin of the hull. However, if they were part of the original moulding, you may regret trying to remove them.
I haven't trawled these archives, but without knowing whether they were part of the original moulding or 'bolt-on extras', I'd be inclined to leave them on and taper the leading and trailing ends into the hull to reduce drag to a minimum. Geoff

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 09:56:23 PM by laurie
geoff, these can't be tapered as they are not thick enough to maintain their structural integrity if this were done; they have no hydrodynamic function on the 22. Their rigidity/load bearing capability is solely derived by turning the edges (leading and otherwise) at right angles.

Posted on 11/11/2003 at 04:44:03 PM by phillip walter
Thanks to every one for help and info. I am inclined to remove the keels down to the base plate and fare this off as best I can. As you say Laurie the Blackwater gloop offers no problems to a boat hull so putting up with the drag of these keels is pointless. regards Phillip

Posted on 12/11/2003 at 10:53:28 AM by Geoff
Phillip, I agree entirely with Laurie's response to my original comments. But before you open this can of worms, do you know how these keels were attached? If they are part of the original moulding, do they also contribute to the structural integrity of the hull? If they do, I'd be very wary of removing them.
The other point I would want to find out (or at least get an estimate on) is how much extra drag they do actually generate. As Laurie rightly says, they have no hydro-dynamic function - but, if they only generate a minimal amount of extra drag, it would be a fair amount of pain for not a lot of gain.
Best regards Geoff
PS; It might be worth thinking about fairing in either side along the length of the keels as well as around the frond and back of them - this would significantly reduce the wetted area they create and would much improve the flow of water over them without losing any strength. Good luck what ever you decide....

Posted on 12/11/2003 at 08:30:33 PM by phillip
Thanks again for everyones input. I will let you know what I do and the outcome. Phillip

Posted on 10/11/2003 at 04:25:30 PM by laurie
No worries, tis why we are here! If yours are bonded on simply cut & grind back; however SOME are through bolted...
I had a 22 with them on, & never felt that they hindered me; but they must slow things down a bit: if I was looking for another 22, I'd prefer one without the runners, I think..., especially with the soft east coast gloop to settle on?

Posted on 11/11/2003 at 09:15:53 PM by Christine
My J22 had the bolted on variety, and I wouldn't be without them. Even if your mooring is mud, if you go further afield you never know what you might come across or how handy they may be. Also when it comes to selling your boat, it may actually put off a buyer who could do with the bilge keels for his mooring. just another point of view!

247. J21 LIFTING KEEL
Posted on 16/11/2003 at 09:59:08 PM by David Williams
Has any one tried to change the lifting mechanism to that of the Parker 21 system....ie. taking it up through the deck above an 8:1 purchase and thence back to a cockpit winch?

248. J22 Spinnaker Size
Posted on 19/11/2003 at 01:09:41 PM by Mike Greener
Can anyone give me the dimensions of a spinnaker for a Jaguar 22. I purchased the boat earlier this year and have had a superb summer, sailing in North Devon, however it came without a spinnaker, and have seriously missed it when running home. Ideally I would like to buy a good secondhand sail but need to know sizes before I go looking. If anyone out there has one for sale I would be interested.

Posted on 25/11/2003 at 06:50:53 PM by Chris Rumbold
J22 Spinnaker 24ft leech, Max width 14ft Triradial. I purchased one earlier this year for my J22 in Bahrain. It was from CJ International (www.sailsuk.com) The service was excellent and delivery very prompt. That size spinnaker worked excellently. Price very reasonable. Also look at www.Sailsdirect.com. I also believe Saturn Sails do have second hand sails for sale too. Hope this is of help to you. Chris

249. How do I get a smooth bottom ?
Posted on 20/11/2003 at 11:01:11 AM by Ralph Wilson
After a few seasons of antifouling, Malstrom's bottom is looking a bit lumpy where I've just primed and antifouled over the bits where it's come away the year before. I can cope with using Dilunett or something similar to remove all the old stuff. When I get down to the concrete on the keel, what filler do I use to get a nice smooth finish before repriming and antifouling ? I believe she's been gelshielded about 10 years ago, no obvious signs of blistering.
A quick look round the chandlers yesterday left me no wiser, do I need the grp filler, the epoxy filler, the gelcoat filler, the you-name-it-filler-with-knobs-on or what? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Posted on 21/11/2003 at 01:16:34 PM by laurie
Exactly what are you going back to? f has been gelshieded (properly), this should have a nice smooth finish, scrape with a "new zealand" type scraper the old antifoul off & reapply, after smoothing off with a light sander/wet& dry Dilunett will do it over several applications, but is foul stuff........

Posted on 23/11/2003 at 02:11:40 PM by ralph
the hull is fairly smooth, just a bit of flaking antifoul here and there, so I will get a New Zealand scraper if you tell me what one looks like . . . The concrete part of the keel is much rougher - I don't know if this would have been gelshielded. This is the bit that is roughest and the bit I wanted to fill and sand until smooth.

Posted on 24/11/2003 at 11:26:11 AM by laurie
The scraper has a metal handle & a removable, VERY sharp & VERY durable double sided replaceable blade. Use gently at first & with eye protection. It will slice the antifoul off, but if you're too heavy handed, you can gouge the gelcoat... However, what concerns me is the CONCRETE? keel?

Posted on 24/11/2003 at 04:06:42 PM by ralph
Thanks for the description. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but always presumed that the fin keel was concrete. There is a definite grp 'hollow' sound at the start of the keel stub to about 1 foot down, then it has a cold heavy feel to it, sounds like solid concrete when tapped and presumably (hopefully) weighs a lot. It doesn't have a smooth finish (hence the original enquiry) and feels like concrete right at the bottom where it's chocked off. At the end of the season there's always a bit of 'rusty' streaking, which I presumed was a bit of FeO2 in the aggregate . . . Perhaps it's steel then, but still not very smooth. There's no sign of keel bolts either. Should there be ? someone tell me I'm not mad please. What's a J27 keel made out of to get the weight ? Surely not cast lead slugs ?

Posted on 25/11/2003 at 09:34:54 AM by jeremy
Concrete would be unusual - certainly not heard of it in a Jaguar before. What you may find (if it is similar to mine) is the following:
1) there is filler between the stub and the keel. Of course the keel is bolted to the stub with out a gap, but as the keel is not square on its outside edge, there is still a void that needs filling.
2) The keel itself I would think is iron rather than steel. It may well have a keel paint applied that it quite bitumous (if that is spelt right. This tends to be pretty rough on the finish, particularly if the keel has been scraped down a bit over the years. You would find the paint a sod to get off, so it is probably best not to try! You could try some faring on it - epoxy with micro balloons should be best, but I dont think it will turn in a great result. I would not worry about the rough keel too much, unless you are planning on entering the next Americas Cup.

Posted on 25/11/2003 at 11:53:23 PM by laurie
Jeremy is quite right, the standard keels , swing or fixed, was iron, but one or two swing keels may be replaced with steel (at least one in the club) Hence the rust streaks.......

Posted on 26/11/2003 at 00:00:02 AM by laurie
...sorry, 27 fin/twin keels are cast iron. For some reason I started rabbiting about 22 keels......

Posted on 25/11/2003 at 01:48:24 PM by ralph
I'll have a look next week and take a magnet. You're right, I'm not planning to enter the Americas Cup, despite ordering a new mainsail ! It just looked unsightly, that's all. I think I probably will try the epoxy filler on the bigger holes. Surely a big lump of iron like that would cause compass deviation ?

Posted on 26/11/2003 at 10:24:58 AM by Jeremy Knight
You are of course quite right that your compas will be affected by the iron in the keel IF THE COMPASS IS TOO CLOSE. Of course you would get much the same effect from a steel keel and from a ferro-concrete keel. Assuming your compass is mounted by the companion way the error should be minimal. You are more likely to get error from electrical items close by, such as instruments, or perhaps from a carelessly thrown down winch handle.
Of course, all compasses have error to some extent or another. Mine has about +/- 5 degrees. Most error can be taken out by a good adjuster, although this is expensive. I always feel that anything less than 5degrees is not worth worrying about, given the greater navigational inaccuracies caused by a human steering, leeway, the accuracy of tidal chartlets and so on. And then of course there is the much greater accuracy of GPS in defining a COG. But it is always a good idea, and quite good fun for the kids, to swing the compass once a season and set up a new error card

Posted on 23/11/2003 at 02:59:18 PM by Kenneth Rennie
Only use epoxy fillers etc below the waterline. Polyesters take in water and fall out eventually. If your gelshield is rough use a fairly heavy wet and dry paper to key the surface and apply another couple of coats with an epoxy roller. Any good chandler should be able to advise or contact us.

Posted on 23/11/2003 at 04:35:00 PM by ralph
Thanks Kenneth

250. J21 HEIGHT OF BOOM

Posted on 2/12/2003 at 04:58:05 PM by david hughes
As a new ownerof jaguar 21 I am very conscious of the height of the boom,and would very much like to lift it; posssibly by altering the sail shape. I realise that such an action could affect the performance,if it can be done at all, but Iwould be grateful for any advice from anyone who has done it or contemplated it.My wife and I are very happy with the boat in all other respects.

Posted on 2/12/2003 at 08:12:57 PM by Paul
Hi David, As a Jaguar 21 owner I feel it could be a shame to lose any performance in such a well handling boat - you never know, you may want to race in the future!Anyway I think what you want could be easily achieved by getting a sailmaker to put in another clew eye about a foot above the existing one - like a flattening reef. When you have full sail, using this will bring the aft end of the boom up by this amount, giving that bit more headroom. The neatest way would be to keep the outhaul attached to the existing clew and having a line starting from and cleated back near the aft end of the boom, going through your new eye. You could always take it out if you want to race.
If your main is like mine, when reefed the boom rises by about a foot anyway so that’s no problem. I put the first reef in by the time it’s F4 which is quite often!

251.ANCHORING

Posted on 2/12/2003 at 05:25:27 PM by david hughes
could anyone advise me on anchoring techniiques with a jaguar 21 when using a hanked on jib. At present I put the anchor in the well in readiness, then,when in position,let the jib flog whilst letting go the anchor. When the anchor is out I lower the jib, Weighing the anchor I reverse the process. Is there anyway of refining this process, without having the jib in the way? Thanks

Posted on 3/12/2003 at 09:21:38 AM by Jeremy Knight
I think the answer to your question lies in determining what the tide and wind are doing with each other. In each of the various situations I would do the following:
1) Wind against tide.
In this case you will want to approach your anchoring point going up tide. This means that you would have the wind behind you, and therefore the best option I think is to lower the main. Let the anchor go, and the headsail flog, and drop back with the tide to set the anchor. Of course this would lead you to still be grappeling with flogging sheets up on the foredeck. However as Paul has pointed out, you can drop the pick over the side from somewhere else - making sure the chain is "outside all" and dropping from the cockpit is just fine. I am not sure I would be too happy about just running in under main and dropping the anchor though. It can lead to the anchor not setting (as it is difficult to get the speed off the boat)and dragging very easlily (I think the medway is mud which may explain why paul does well with this method - mud can be great for anchors, but not all of us have that luxury). But if you use the headsail, but do the crew a favour by bringing the them and anchor back to the cockpit, there should be no need use the main. Remember to steer as you go backwards and pay the chain out at a moderate rate so that you don't end up with a big pile of metal on top of your anchor.

2) Wind and tide in same direction.
This is easier. If you again aproach coming up tide you can use the main on a closereach. Luff and release the sheet, drop anchor and fall back just as before.

3) No Tide. Again this is easy, just aproach up wind with the main, luff, sheet away and release anchor.
Getting off the pin is just the same theory. If you can sail up to the anchor, whilst having the wind in the right direction to allow you to use the main then use it. Otherwise I think the jib is the only real alternative.

So I guess what you are doing sounds right to me, but with the possible modification of using the main when ever the wind and tide direction allow and bringing the anchor aft when you have to use the jib
Tom Cunliffe is always very good value on anchoring. Have a look at almost any of his books and you will probably find him going on ad nausium about the subject

Posted on 4/12/2003 at 07:53:51 PM by Paul
Jeremy's right about the Medway mud - and there are lots of favourite places to anchor.
But I have to admit that where i am not sure I drop sails and use the engine. I have hanked on sails like David, but securing the jib to the pulpit with sail ties means it does not get in the way of anchoring Paul

Posted on 5/12/2003 at 03:32:16 PM by jeremy
And there I was thinking you were all talking about anchoring under sail. Please ignore every single word I previously said - it is all of no relevance at all (nothing new there then).
Mind you there is nothing to beat the sense of satisfaction you get from anchoring under sail. And the looks of approbation you get from the watchers also take some beating.

Posted on 5/12/2003 at 10:56:44 PM by paul
Jeremy, I thought everything you said was good advice. It is much better to anchor under sail when you can - I do so more often than not, especially as a Jag 21 only has an outboard. In any case, the Medway has a load of creeks for lunch stops where you can watch little egrets, avocets and so on in peaceful surroundings. The last thing I want to do is to spoil the quiet with a noisy two-stroke!
I sometimes attempt to get back on to my fore and aft mooring under sail only too. So far, that has usually resulted in looks of amusement from any watchers

Posted on 5/12/2003 at 08:19:01 PM by Colin Bishop
In Newtown Creek I tended to get looks of apprehension.

Posted on 9/12/2003 at 02:33:56 PM by jeremy
Come on, don't spoil my fun. The only way I can get a look of appreciation these days is by anchoring under sail. And the last time I "turned a head" was in 1982. Apart, of course, from turning Barcarole's head when I put the helm over!
I have to admit that anchoring under sail in Newtown, on a summer Saturday would test the nerve of any good man (or woman). Still, at least there are no military vessels in newtown creek.
As to berthing. Try putting it on its mooring, by reversing in under sail - that'll amuse them even more!
A good alternative to anchoring for lunch (and all the messy goo that it involves - anchoring that is, not lunch). Heave to. Not so good for paul's Avocet infested creeks, but I have to say the 27 heaves to a treat with the main off, helm over and the jib backed in tight. It only seems to forereach at less than half a knot. What could be better for canapes and petit fours!
Aren't little egrets supposed to produce one of the most gel cost damaging types of guano?

Posted on 2/12/2003 at 08:18:27 PM by paul
Hi David, I agree that the jib and the anchor can get in each others way. On the Medway I have found that the easiest way to anchor in my Jaguar 21 is to deploy the anchor from the cockpit. This works for me although I have not tried it in very strong winds.
I prepare the anchor (which is in a bag in the back of the cockpit) by leading the warp under the guardrail, outside everything and in through the bow roller to the cleat in the bows. When it is time to anchor it is fun to do this under sail, as follows:
I drop the headsail and continue under main only, turning dead downwind. When I reach the point where I want the anchor to be, (e.g 5m depth with 30 m of warp)I chuck it under the guardrail (the opposite side to the main or you will gybe) and the chain and warp run out. As the anchor bites, it will be dug in by your forward momentum and the boat will turn round head to wind perfectly for you to stow the main at your leisure!
I have done this both singlehanded and in company and it has worked every time. Obviously you don’t want to be going too fast. If this looks possible, I have done this by dropping the main first and heading downwind with the jib which of course is easy to let fly. However you lose the advantage of the easy stow of the main at anchor.
I still retrieve it from the bows, however. To sail out, I hoist the main first. I take the bag up and put it in the well, pull up the anchor and put it away in the bag. This is the point where i get mud on the jib :)
Then by backing the main the boat goes backward and I steer to bring the boat broadside to the wind. Sheet in the main and off you go, a three point turn! When under way I hoist the jib.
The Jaguar 21 is so manoeuvrable that all this is easier than it sounds. This is just my way of doing things, I am sure others will have different methods.

252. Cockpit controls
Posted on 8/12/2003 at 09:06:50 PM by Roger Doran
I would to like info regarding taking mainsail control-lines aft for operation from the cockpit. Also the position of the electrical cables within the headlining running to the foot of the mast becaus i need to drill near that area and dont want to hit anything.
Thanks Roger

Posted on 9/12/2003 at 02:10:37 PM by jeremy
What sort of Jag is it you are wanting to do this to. If it is the 27 it may be difficult because the large hatch leaves little room for the winches. If it is a 21 you may not need winches.
Generic info would be to ensure that the turning blocks at the mast are either attached to the foot of the mast (Maybe the same attachement as the kicking strap/vang)or that there is a good strong back if they are on the coach roof - the pull against a reefing pennant from the halyard is quite considerable. Also keep them central so that the tension on the pennants is kept constant what ever the tack you are on. Coach Roof winches of course need a good strong back, as will the jammer cleats.
Of course this all assumes that you have slab reefing.

Posted on 11/12/2003 at 11:24:39 AM by Hilary
The web page below may be useful...... from USA Catalina 27 owners page. Being a nosey nautical person I joined the C27 message board, which is at times very helpful and entertaining. Many northern boats are now buried in snow, and it was interesting to read of hurricane Isabell earlier and its effect on our fellow sailors on the East Coast.
http://www.members.aol.com/bobdeurer/mod-r9.htm

253. Sailing in the Solent
Posted on 14/12/2003 at 02:23:45 PM by Phil Tomaszewski
I intend to trail my Jag 22 Aretia down to the south coast ( solent ) area next year and seking advice from any southerners or owners who keep boats down there.
Where is the best place to launch from in terms of ease of access, costs, mooring on a weekly basis, launch & recovery all the usual Trailer sailer type of problems. I am cosidering Chichester / Langstone harbour! but can any one tell me if there is anywhere better?
Thanking you in anticipation, merry Xmas & happy new year.

Posted on 15/12/2003 at 03:54:14 PM by Hilary
and another thing.....
http://www.langstoneharbour.org.uk/home.htm

Posted on 15/12/2003 at 03:38:35 PM by Hilary
We have salve nauta, j27, in Southsea Marina. http://www.premiermarinas.com/southsea/home.htm
We like it. It is small, friendly, the cill opening restrictions are easily worked around, and the gain for us is that we are quickly out into a more open less crowded Solent. We are not bothered by large yots and charter parties, and Langstone HArbour being a nature reserve with little else in the way of commercial traffic is also nice. Trailer slipways that I know are on the western shore of the harbour entrance at and next to Eastney Cruising Association, and at the Ferry Inn on the eastern side of the harbour entrance, approached from Hayling Island. The clean pebbly beaches at this eastern end of Southsea and the western end of Hayling Island even on that hot Aug bank hol were almost empty.
Southsea is easier than many other places on the S coast for us to get to from Bucks.

Posted on 1/1/2004 at 09:44:00 PM by Jon Cheesewright
We keep a J21 at Birdham Pool in Chichester Harbour. The lock opening arrangements can be a bit restrictive but the facilites are improving and it's still cheaper than the main Chichester marina (run by Premier).
It takes about an hour to get to the harbour entrance. Although you are then on the extreme Eastern edge of the Solent, it can take a couple of hours or longer to get into the thick of things!
The harbour is protected and is very picturesque but can get very busy over bank hoiday weekends. There are several other mooring options (icluding a public slipway at Itchenor) and several friendly clubs (we belong to Chichester Yacht Club: www.cyc.co.uk)

254. J22 Fastening the forestay
Posted on 15/12/2003 at 03:21:13 PM by Keith Shepherdson
I have just sailed my Jaguar 22 which I bought last month to my mooring, In doing so I had to lower the mast. Has anyone got a picture or drawing of how the forestay and roller reefing genova are fastened to the boat as I am having diffeculty in remembering I should had taken note at the time of lowering

Posted on 15/12/2003 at 06:00:59 PM by laurie
I didn't have roller-reefing on my 22. The forestay was attached to the stem head with a bottle screw.
I thought such info was in the manual?

Posted on 16/12/2003 at 08:33:46 AM by Keith Shepherdson
Thank you for you reply Laurie but when I bought the J22 it had no manual with it I have dowloaded 1 from the internet but could not find a drawing or picture of the fastening.

255. J22 Weak points ??
Posted on 15/12/2003 at 09:08:40 PM by Igor
Hi all, Next saturday I'm going to inspect a J22 I want to buy. The price is quite reasonable altough the boat is maintained very badly.
I've read about some bolts to inspect at the keel but I don't really know what to inspect.
I'm also curious about some other weak points to inspect. Does anybody have a list or something? Thanks.

Posted on 16/12/2003 at 11:26:27 PM by Laurie
as per all craft of this type & age, get a survey!
1/ Stemhead fitting is not thru' bolted
2/ Balsa cored coachroof can suffer from localised depression around the mast step, &/or delamination.
3/ Keel pivot & pin winch & cable: see article on site.
All the rest, save get rid of the loo if it is of the ballhead type, would be non specific & generally applicable to any boat............

Posted on 17/12/2003 at 04:34:53 PM by Igor
Ehh.... forgive me. My english is quite good, but I don't know the expression "stemhead" (I'm dutch) My dictionairy doesn't know the word either. Is it possible to explain it?
The coachroof is in good shape. No delamination or weak points. The pivot pin from the keel is worn.
Small update: I've been to the boat today (tuesday dec 17th) with my wife. She liked the boat very much and we did an offer. The guy from the harbour will call the owner tomorrow about our offer. We'll hear it at the end of this week. We bid 500 euro's (about the same in dollars)under the asking price. I think this is quite reasonable because I have to paint it all over, replace the pin from the keel and she'll need new sails. If they will not agree I'll have to look further because otherwise the boat will get too expensive if I want to bring it back into good shape.
I hope they will agree with our offer. I'll post an update at the end of the week.

Posted on 18/12/2003 at 12:14:12 PM by Dick Hicks
Igor, "stemhead" is an English nautical word for the metal fitting at the front of the boat where the forestay and jib are fixed to. Although not familiar with the J22, if not through bolted, could pull out!!
Incidently your English is very good, much better than my Dutch!

Posted on 18/12/2003 at 02:10:57 PM by Jeremy Knight
We have had a few other dutch people contacting the association - their messages are either still on the message board or are in the archive on the home page. If you do buy your J22 you may want to contact them and set up a dutch jaguar association - I am sure we would be please to "affiliate" with you. You could even join our association and we will just refer to it as the European Jaguar association!
Good luck with the purchase - could be a nice Christmas present for you!

Posted on 18/12/2003 at 02:56:36 PM by laurie
We have members across Europe, the Middle East & America, so so don't cogitate, or affiliate, but participate!!
You'd be very welcome!! Perhaps then we could organise a rally across the North Sea.......?

Posted on 19/12/2003 at 10:33:52 AM by jeremy
Presumably by suggesting I was cogitating, you are displaying your view that I am an "Old Coger" :)

256. J27 Cruising Chute
Posted on 17/12/2003 at 11:05:37 AM by Sean Woods
What a great site - I'll be getting a chegue in the post soon to join!! In the meantime, does anyone know what the dimensions should be for a cruising chute on a Jag 27? Any help would be most appreciated.

Posted on 17/12/2003 at 04:43:35 PM by gh
I have a cruising chute, if nec. I could measure it.( On a calm day)

Posted on 17/12/2003 at 05:00:52 PM by Laurie Milton
Not quite what you were asking, but I have an unused spinnaker available, or could swap for a 'chute...?

Posted on 18/12/2003 at 02:05:08 PM by Sean Woods
Don't have a pole or any deck/mast fittings required for a spinnaker I'm afraid. Two main reasons for the chute option are cost and ease of use with inexperienced crew.

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 11:27:27 AM by steve edwards
Laurie, Details please pic if possible. Do you have a pole & how much?

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 03:58:20 PM by Laurie Milton
No pole, well I do....but.......
However, the spinny is various shades of blue, & unused......
I would certainly swap it for an appropriate 'chute if you have one, or I could be persuaded to let it go to a good home, if you can collect or arrange same, for an appropriate paltry sum......whatever you think it's worth? It's certainly wasted sitting here!

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 08:07:57 PM by steve edwards
Laurie, Sorry severe case of the red mist. I was reading Igor's account and switched to the next item totally ignoring the critical J27. I fear this spinny could hail the end for poor old TBag a mere J22

Posted on 24/12/2003 at 12:05:23 PM by laurie
- nothing mere about the 22. I had one & miss it hugely! (-can't have too much canvas.....!!!)

Posted on 24/12/2003 at 06:57:05 PM by steve edwards
laurie, Do you really think a 22 could handle that much canvas, or are you having me on. She does have a mast 2 feet higher than standard. If I do endup buying it you may have to come to Rutland and give me lessons.

Posted on 25/12/2003 at 02:28:56 PM by Laurie Milton
I was......but then I got thinking, hypothetically, some racers fly in light airs, TWO spinnakers: so yes....she could.....?
-but seriously, you'd do better getting a purpose made one.....

257. I bought the J22!!!
Posted on 18/12/2003 at 05:58:43 PM by Igor
Today the guy from the harbour called. The (previous) owner agreed with my offer. So I bought a nice Christmas present for myself! Next saturday I'm going to pay for it and receive the keys! Thanks all for your kind messages on my previous topic
Then I have to do a lot of work! The boat is on the shore now. First I'm going to take the interior, engine, sails, eg home. I'll have to make a new rudder, paint the wooden parts of the boat, have the sails washed, etc,etc... What did I do??? Also I will inspect te pin from the keel. Then I will have to wait until the winter is over because it's too cold to paint the hull.

Posted on 18/12/2003 at 08:47:17 PM by Colin Bishop
Congratulations, may it give you as much pleasure as my J25 did!

Posted on 19/12/2003 at 10:30:39 AM by jeremy
Well done! but I think you will find that you have just paid for the privalage of having to do lots of hard work - Sometimes I think we must all be a little odd!

Posted on 19/12/2003 at 10:32:14 AM by jeremy
Oh, I forgot - have a look at Lauries message slightly lower - we are already an international organiseation - why don't you and your family join us.

258. J22 - How to support on the shore
Posted on 20/12/2003 at 04:34:41 PM by Igor
As told before I'm a happy new owner of a J22. When I bought the boat it was already on the shore, but it wasn't winterized yet. So first I made a start with preparing it for the winter (It's been winter for 2 months already here!!)
First of all I'm not happy with the way the boat is supported on the shore. As this J22 has no fixed keel it's resting on the hull itself. At the front it's resting on a barrel with a piece of wood on it and at the rear there's a frame under the boat with two supports under the hull. Also here large pieces of wood between the support and the hull. (these supports are placed at the hole where the steel cable of the keel enters the hull -one right and one left.) The problem I have with this "construction" is that the hull is dented where it lies on the wooden pieces. When working on the boat you can feel the hull moving because the hull dents. I don't think this is very good for the hull. But I don't know a better way to have it on the shore. Any tips???
The toilet is of the type I've never seen. It has some kind of plunger on top and thre are no taps or something on it. I was thinking to fill the toilet with anti-freeze and then flush it.
At last... Does anybody know how I can find out the year when it was built? It has number 1020 in the sail.

Posted on 22/12/2003 at 01:22:23 PM by Dick Hicks
Hi, Igor., It sounds as though your toilet is the infamous "BALHEAD" - this was fitted in lots of small boats several years ago. If it is a pale green/blue colour, with a large diaphragm in the centre? and a large 50mm diameter hole in the centre leading directly into the sea? is there a small lever on the side which operates a flap valve? If it is like this THROW IT AWAY!!. They leak, spares are no longer available, and they can break thus allowing a very large hole directly into your boat! Either replace with a Porta-Potti (after filling the hole in the bottom of the boat) or a proper Marine Toilet with inlet and outlet seacocks.
The cheapest is a Porta-Potti, about £75 from your local caravan dealer. Good Luck!

Posted on 20/12/2003 at 04:59:12 PM by Igor
This is also weird... I read in the archives that no J22 has a water tank. Mine does. The space under the stowage compartiment on the right side in the rear is the water tank.

Posted on 22/12/2003 at 09:04:06 AM by jeremy
It sounds like you have quite a task ahead of you.
My understanding of how to lay up a bilge keeled hull is that the main weight of the hull should be on the keels. You may need to put down some large pieces of wood for the keels to rest on - something like railway sleepers maybe. Then it should also be supported at the front by a prop - another large wooden post. Finally a few props round the side.
With the dent you describe, it sounds like a fairly significant repair needs to be done. I would expect to make a mould from the existing hull, taking out the dent of course. Mould up again, and put some stringers in behind for strength. Might be worth talking to an expert unless you are a whizz on fibreglass.
Can't recognise the toilet from what you say. But I do know that unless it is reliable then it will cause arguements. Your family will be upset when they want a pee and it isn't working, and you will be upset when it blocks just after someone has done something substantial in it! I would not hesitate in replacing it if you have the slightest doubt.
Don't know the 22 well enough to comment on the water tank.
I think you have a lot of other checking to do before you launch!

Posted on 22/12/2003 at 11:18:31 PM by Igor
Well, personally I don't think I will have to replace that part of the hull. It's not cracked. I think I explained it wrong. When the boat is lifted the dent will be gone. I don't exactly know how to explain this in English laguage but polyester is al little elastic. So there's nothing worng with that part of the hull. It's just that you can't stress the hull at that particular point. It's been made to float in the water and it's not been made to be supported at just that spot. So the thing I wanted to know is how other J22 owners put their boat on the shore.

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 11:25:39 AM by jeremy
No its not that you explained it wrong - I didn't read your message closely enough. Pleased that there is no damage, and you seem to have lots of advice regarding laying the boat up. Enjoy your work!

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 09:16:46 AM by Steve O'Connell
Igor, I support mine by placing timber under both bilge keels and lift keel and support the transom with timber laid over an oil drum.
I too had a very small water tank at the forward end of the stb'd cockpit locker but have replaced it with a flexible tank.

Posted on 24/12/2003 at 09:34:08 AM by Igor
Eh, what exactly do you mean with "bilge keels" ??

Posted on 24/12/2003 at 12:01:24 PM by Laurie Milton
In the case of the 22, many had 2 mini keels either side of the swing keel, designed to support he hull when drying out.
In other boats, bilge keels refer to two substantial keels mounted side by sidehese allow a shallower draft (nominally) & again allow the boat to dry out. Historically they compromised sailing performance, particularly to windward, but modern designs perform almost as well as fin keel boats.

Posted on 25/12/2003 at 12:03:41 PM by Igor
Ahh, I understand.... We call that kim-keels over here. That's why I didn't understand.
I'll try to but some more barrels under the hull and use a carjack (is this the word for that thing to lift a car?)

Posted on 23/12/2003 at 09:58:20 AM by Peter Ferguson
Hello Igor. Sounds like you are having fun.

1. Re the toilet. This is a case where the adage of 'if there is nothing wrong don't fix it' is actually wrong. The design of the toilet is/was flawed and you will feel a lot safer with one less hole in the hull. Its a easy job to remove, just undo the bolts holding it to the floor and then fill with fibreglass. (Strongly recommend!)
2. Shore based storage. Mine has always been on a trailer so hasn't had this problem. If I was you I would simply put more wooden struts in place around the side. Obviously it is not a good thing to be flexing the hull unduely. Problem is that its not just when you stand on the boat will it flex. It will also flex as the boat moves in the wind (even on the land!)
3. It is a lovely boat, fast and secure, have fun!

259. J22 - how old is my J22?
Posted on 26/12/2003 at 01:06:31 AM by Barend Peters
Hi, Does anybody know how to find out how old my J22 is? Is there a reation between sailnumber and year of built?? Mu sailnumber is 4268..
Howmany J22 are built on the Jagaur shipyard ?

Posted on 26/12/2003 at 11:39:37 AM by laurie
This is a frequently asked question, and whilst there should be a correlation between sail number & build number, it isn't neccesssarily so.
You MIGHT have a builders plate, with the no., near the battery box, under the step.
For total nos. built, click on the Jaguar 22 tab, on the homepage.

260. J27 Rigging repair - help?
Posted on 7/1/2004 at 06:46:42 PM by Andy Giles
While out this weekend on "Islay Mist" I noticed that one of the plastic cap ends on the end of the spreader had snapped and slid down the the rigging. I am still very new to yacht ownership so this may seem like a dumb question. To fix this can I go up the mast to the spreader and stretch across to effect the repair, or can I shim up the rigging to do the same, or does the mast need to come down? I am also worried that continuing to use the boat with out a fix might leave me open to sail damage on the genoa? Do the caps make a difference or is it just cosmetic? Any help on this from the more experienced members out there is welcome. I guess like most of us I am trying to avoid paying out to either yards or riggers whenever possible, also I figure I should learn to do as much as possible, as I am sure one day I may need to sort a problem out many miles from land. I do have a mast ladder which came with the boat.
As an aside, I have had such a great time with my J27 over the last couple of months, what a quick and seaworthy boat, its been a real pleasure to sail. This forum has been a real help, I am so surprised at how many boats I looked at when buying, where the owners were not members.

Posted on 7/1/2004 at 11:20:31 PM by Laurie Milton
Forgive a somewhat abreviated reply, but my pooter is throwing wobblies at the moment!
The short answer is yes:
-you or a rigger can go up the mast to effect a replacement/repair (suitably hoisted of course!)
-the shroud will have to be slackened first
- the cap does protect the sail,
-BUT, you may? be able to effect a temporary repair, without slackening the rig, using self amalgamating tape, if that is what it's called?

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 10:41:47 AM by Andy Giles
Many thanks for that feedback Laurie, I feel more confident about tackling the job myself. Looking at the forecast, I think I might just leave it this weekend as strong wind conditions are probably not the best time for your first time up a mast, even in a marina!

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 02:03:39 PM by Jeremy Knight
Everything Laurie say is of course correct. A few pointers for what it is worth:
Make sure what ever tape you use is waterproof - you don't want to end up re-doing the job in a few weeks time. Amalgamating is good.
Get a friend to help you cimb the mast. You will need a bosun's chair or a climbing harness. Tie the harness to a halyard with a bowline - NO OTHER KNOT WILL DO. Get the friend to winch you up the mast. You can help by pulling your self up so that the winching is less work. If you have another friend get them to handle a second safety line attached to your harness - they dont need to winch, just to take a few turns on another winch and gently haul in as you rise - then if you fall or your other friend lets the line slip, there is someone to catch you. Above all, take your time. It is all too easy to hurt yourself or sare yourself plain silly up the mast, even a small mast like a Jaguar. And that would be a shame - the view is great up there!
While you are up, go to the top of the mast and give it a thorough inspect. Look for Cracked/leaking aerial fixing, Cracks at the top of the mast, rusted/cracked ringing terminals, broken strands of wire, worn rope sheaves and so on - all common sense. But check on your way down - it is easier to look round while you are not climbing.
Tie any tools to your belt - your friends would not appreciate having them accidently dropped on their heads!
Take a camara - you can get a good shot from up there. If you really want to show off, you can turn up side down in a climbing harness (but don't do it in a bosun's chair!). Then the photo you take will not have your feet in the shot.
If you need a chair and you are near southampton I can lend you one. I also have a rope ladder that makes the whole task a little easier.

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 03:04:57 PM by Ralph
There is another method if you don't have a friend (just like me), or don't trust the strength of your winches etc. I think you said in an earlier post that you have a mast ladder. What you then need is a safety line. I use a secured halyard from the top of the mast cleated off at one of the cleats on the base of the mast. You can then use a spare piece of rope with a PRUSIK knot around the halyard.
The prusik knot is well known to mountaineers and it has the property of unlocking when there is no load and locking when there is load. However, you will probably have to slide the knot upwards. Another way of doing this if you are a mountaineer is to use 'ascenders' on the halyard, mechanically duplicating the prusik knot.
Actually, using 2 prusik knots with tape loops attached, you can ascend a taut rope by putting your foot in one, sliding the other knot up, putting your other foot in the loop, standing up and then repeating until you reach the top. Quite tiring though and you would still need a safety line, but it could be useful in an emergency I suppose.
Have fun and be careful, what feels like minor ripples on deck feel like major oscillations up there.
Jeremy, I did take the camera, but didn't do the inversion !

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 06:47:58 PM by jeremy
Prusik is a great knot!I use 3 loops - 1 for my harness and 1 each for the feet. Seems to work well, but as you say, knackering. Thats why I bought the ladder. Looked at ascenders, but they seemed very expensive.
Maybe you should do a write up on the prusik for our Seacats magazine - I am sure people would be interested.

Posted on 16/1/2004 at 11:26:14 AM by Andy Giles
Thanks for your advice Ralph. I will check out my local outdoor centre to source the equipment needed. The ability to do this type of thing without help is important as a great deal of my time is spent single-handing, although the thought of me dangling from a rope sounds daunting

261. experience with catalina-direct sails??
Posted on 8/1/2004 at 07:55:40 PM by Igor
When surfing the Catalina direct webpage I noticed that the prices for C22 sails are quite competitive compared to The Netherlands. I wasn't surprised to find this out because in the USA there are 1000 times more C22's than here.
So I was wondering if anyone could tell me something about the quality of these sails. Also I was wondering if anyone knows better deals than this one.

Posted on 8/1/2004 at 07:57:29 PM by Igor
Also, does anybody know if these C22 sails will fit on my Jaguar 22 (that's what the european version is called)

Posted on 8/1/2004 at 08:58:20 PM by Laurie Milton
Yes, they should do; however one or two CATALINAS had a taller mast option, the 22 included. This should be checked.
However we do produce a member recommended suppliers list, which includes sailmakers, specifically recommended by members in the UK.
This list is available (free) to all JOA members.

Posted on 8/1/2004 at 10:05:10 PM by Igor
Ok, I'd like to have this list. Can I find it somewhere? Or do you need my E-mail adress?
On the other hand... Your Pound Sterling is quite expensive compared to the Euro and the dollar is quite cheap. So for UK residents the USA Catalina sails should be even a greater deal than they are for me!
For example: A normal mainsail costs $497 and a headsail costs $339. That's EUR 395 and EUR 270. Or GBP 279 and GBP 190.
What do you think.... Is this a good deal? Over here it costs two and a half times more!

Posted on 8/1/2004 at 10:15:58 PM by Igor
Sorry, I've been reading to fast.... Free to all JOA members.
I'm still considering membership. I'm tempted to become a member but still hesitating because I'm not an UK citizen. What's the advantage for me above a local club?

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 11:46:38 AM by Denis
Igor, I'm not a UK citizen or resident but there are three advantages that I see to membership
1) the get-togethers that are organised each year - I can't attend, but I do enjoy reading the banter thereafter;
2) the Seacats mag, news letter, suppliers list etc, on which Laurie does Trogan work.
3) the most significant, for me personally, is this newsboard. I'm new to boat ownership and everyone has been most welcoming and helpful. I know the membership fee does not directly support the boards existance, but it does in some small way say that we acknowledge the work that Paul and Laurie are doing.
I think the news about the lack of renewals must be very dispiriting for them. Eur 17 is very well spent for the infastructure they're holding together.
Laurie will be smiling ruefully if he reads this - my renewal was v. late!

Posted on 9/1/2004 at 10:35:11 PM by Laurie Milton
After that.....who cares!!!!!!!
....(thank you)

Posted on 13/1/2004 at 05:38:43 PM by Jeremy Knight
But we are all members of Europe! Here in the UK there is even talk that our ensign (boats country flag) will be altered to reflect the fact that we are in Europe - ie the stars on the blue background will be added.
So come on and join the European Jaguar Owners Association - the fact that it is run from a small farm house that happens to be sited in the eastern part of the most notherly island of the European Union should not hinder you!
Also - it looks like the web site and message board are useful to you so it really would be so much appreciated if you made the small contribution of 17 Euro to help the association keep it running. And then you would get the free news letter and the supplier list as well. What a bargain!

262. J23 keel wire fitting
Posted on 16/1/2004 at 12:30:28 PM by David Coldham
Can anyone give me the lenght and thickness of a jaguar 23 lift keel wire and how to fit it please.

Posted on 18/1/2004 at 01:16:09 PM by Laurie Milton
AS I thought they were identical in this respect,: have you looked at the article on the J21 page?
If you have a wire strap, consider a Dyneema replacement...?
Also consider contacting Jaguar Yachts; again email address is on site.

Posted on 18/1/2004 at 06:13:17 PM by Paul
Unfortunately the J23 and J21 are not the same in this respect - maybe because the lift keel is heavier with the J23. The webbing strap works great with the 21. From the winch the strap passes over a couple of full width nylon rollers then to the keel - it's a neat arrangement but it does feel slightly strange to be lifting 250Kg with it!
If you know the weight of the J23 keel it should be easy to find out the thickness of the wire required at least!

Posted on 18/1/2004 at 02:51:52 PM by laurie
-dyneema webbing, not rope!!
Or see reccommended supplier lists (FOC to paid up members)

263. J22 Handicap Rating
Posted on 16/1/2004 at 04:02:19 PM by Tim Hamlin
Does anyone know the Portsmouth Yardstick Handicap for a Jaguar 22 with and without bilge Keels. Required for leveling the playing field at my local club!!

Posted on 17/1/2004 at 07:14:23 PM by Paul
In 2000 the RYA listed 1168 as the handicap for drop keel Jaguar 22 with outboard engine. They've not listed it since, along with a number of other boats, due they say to a lack of returns.
Don't know what difference the bilge runners would make - there is always the option of a local variation to the handicap!

Posted on 18/1/2004 at 01:16:09 PM by Laurie Milton
As I thought they were identical in this respect,: have you looked at the article on the J21 page?
If you have a wire strap, consider a Dyneema replacement...?
Also consider contacting Jaguar Yachts; again email address is on site.

264. Saildrive seal
Posted on 18/1/2004 at 02:19:40 AM by Bill Stacey
Having now taken the plunge and bought a Jaguar 25 thoughts turn to getting her ready for the water with new gear etc. but obviously a priority is to make sure she don't sink!! I cannot find any info on the procedure for renewing the rubber seal on the saildrive, the boat being fitted with a Volvo diesel. The literature with the boat states 5yr or/and 7 yr renewal period. As this appears to be a pretty routine maintainance task I am surprised not to be able to find ANYTHING on it. Can someone out there help with advice, or should I leave it to the 'professionals'? Bill Stacey 'Sanderling'

Posted on 18/1/2004 at 01:09:19 PM by Laurie Milton
Right...first, which seal are we talking about, inner or outer?
Lets do both.......
Inner seal, or insurance companies, will need doing (Volvo) every seven years. However, speaking to various engineering companies, I've yet to find one fail.... after 12 years, mine was immaculate. Depending on acccess, the leg has to be separated from the engine, or the engine tilted & lifted a few inches, & the inner ring can be done in situ. However bearing in mind that the engine was now off its blocks, I took the opportunity to remove it completely, & clean & repaint the engine compartment. PBO & Sailing Today, have both done articles on this, but leave a w/e, & it's straightforward.
The outer seal, requires absolute cleanliness, otherwise it will come off, & regluing ( is that spelt correctly?) it between tides up to your ears in mud, is not fun, I know!!
Lightly(!) abrade the CLEAN hull. Do the same with the inside of the seal, then wipe thoroughly with acetone (NOT white spirit). Orientate the seal so that the drain hole is at the lowest point (forwards on my 27), & having liberally applied SIKAFLEX (not Volvos glue)offer up. Use a small hard roller & roll centre outwards, until "wug" has appeared ALL ROUND the seal which ensures the edges can't lift. Allow to cure, & trim. Lightly abrade & antifoul......

Posted on 20/1/2004 at 00:36:29 AM by Bill Stacey
thanks Laurie, I cannot find much on the web re suppliers of the seals/diaphragm and have yet to investigate the PBO article. Any suggestions re raising the engine ? does everything attached require detaching ? ie fuel, throttle, wiring. Where is the best online supplier for the diaphragm / seal and a folding prop? any tips will help make the decision DIY or marine engineer. Bill Stacey.

Posted on 20/1/2004 at 08:43:10 PM by laurie
If you are removing, then things need detaching, not difficult.. Remove engine door framework, & use block & tackle above hatch, & it will lift almost straight out; after detaching front two mounts! For insurance etc, replace with Volvo (not cheap, you're looking around £200 for the seals.) I had a folding prop, but that's now gone. Do you want folding or feathering?
Any Volvo agent can supply seals etc., I have used French Marine (as per directory) for years, but another member has reservations about this company.
If you have enough room to tilt the engine, & you don't want to remove it entirely, then you may get away with detaching only the engine mounts.....

265. J22 Keel Cable Replacement
Posted on 18/1/2004 at 06:51:21 PM by George Page
Where can I buy a new keel cable complete with turning ball for my Jag 22

Posted on 19/1/2004 at 06:25:04 PM by Peter Ferguson
I took the old one to my local chandlery, he made up a new cable for the grand sum of £12. Re the turning ball. One side was extremely worn, so I simply turned it over to expose the good side, and fixed it in place. Ok so it won't turn any more, but I would imagine a new one will stop turning pretty quickly when a groove gets worn in anyway. Did that two years ago, no problems to date. I think I probably used 3 or 4 mm cable, with single eyelet.

Posted on 19/1/2004 at 02:48:49 PM by Steve O'Connell
Catalina Direct

266. j25 Window dressing
Posted on 18/1/2004 at 10:06:22 PM by Paul Mead
I need to replace/repair seome leaking windows but can't see how to get the blooming things out.
I've so far taken external screws out, taken off the internal plastic 'pretty strip' and pushed gently but it all seems very solid to me.
Before I start giving it some wellie has anybody got any advice.

Posted on 20/1/2004 at 00:41:37 AM by bill Stacey
Hi, did windows on a Konsort last year, much the same system I think, but probably heavier gear, took some pretty hefty thumping with the rubber handle end of a claw hammer but once the 'seal' mastic etc, broke far lighter taps were necessary. I'm goint to do my Jag 25, any advice on obtaining the seals/windows Bill

Posted on 19/1/2004 at 10:26:43 AM by Dick Hicks
Paul, Go to Archive 1, no 42 and you'll see a previous discussion on this subject

Posted on 20/1/2004 at 06:16:01 PM by Paul Mead
Thanks gentlemen, I'll begin to give it a bit of wellie now I know it just pops out. Presumably all that holds it/them in are screws and mastic. I haven't got round to even thinking about what I will replace them with or from whom but will post a note when it happens. I noticed somebody in West Mersea, Essex that I might pay a visit to.

267. bow thruster
Posted on 21/1/2004 at 09:31:55 PM by steve edwards
There is a bow thruster 8kw 10hp for sale in PBO for 1K. I wonder if I could convert this to a fixed outboard to electrically drive my J22 on Rutland water. It would be significantly cheaper than an electric saildrive. Anybody with technical experience to comment

Posted on 22/1/2004 at 09:07:33 AM by Dick Hicks
No. You would need enormous batteries, and they are only rated for a few seconds work in every hour. The motors are like a starter motor, they are very powerful for several seconds but the downside is that they will overheat after about a minute or so and will draw a lot of amps from your batteries. If you want to go the electric route, you would have to get a properly designed motor. Why do you want to convert an outboard to electric drive? You would need, at a guess, probably 6 x 12v-110 AH Heavy Duty 'Forklift' Type batteries which are very expensive and would weigh about 300Kg.
It would be cheaper I think to get a 4 stroke outboard.

Posted on 23/1/2004 at 10:56:04 AM by steve edwards
Dick, Thank you for your advice. The reason for wanting electric is I sail on Rutland water & we are not allowed petrol or diesel engines. The largest electric outboards can't cope in anything more than a light breeze & electric saildrives are between 4 & 5k.
Guess I'll just have to carry on picking up mooring under sail. Quite tricky on your own.

268. J27 Antifoul
Posted on 23/1/2004 at 11:19:18 AM by sean woods
Anyone know how much antifoul you need for a Jag 27? Also, any thoughts on the best value/performance brand of antifouling for a boat that would be swinging in Portsmouth Harbour from March to November. Any help would be appreciated.

Posted on 23/1/2004 at 06:45:22 PM by Andy Giles
I am like you Sean all very new to this, only having owned my J27 for a little over 5 months, so this is based more on what I have found out myself rather than from years of experience. I am just a little way down from you in Hasler Marina, so our mooring conditions are very similar. Islay Mist is carrying Seajet Shoegun, which has now been on the boat for close on a season and a half. She came out of the water in September for her survey, a quick hose down and she was ready to go back in the water with no need for any touch up. Since then she has been on her mooring at Hasler, again lifted out a few weeks ago, another quick hose down and back she went. The Seajet looks like it will do two season without much trouble. Now I don't know if thats down to the product, although many seem to use it and it comes well recommended, or the tide conditions we find in the Gosport/Portsmouth area, or the fact that most weekends she is out being used that accounts for virually no growth of anything on the hull? Will keep any eye for you whenyou are back in along with the many other J27's that seem to be in this neck of the woods.

Posted on 23/1/2004 at 06:56:46 PM by Laurie Milton
Will also depend on the weather as well as local conditions. Weed growth being promoted in sunny warm conditions. So each season may provide different conditions. Coverage will be specified on the tin, & will vary according to type, such as eroding etc., & whether you have twin or fin keels (surface area)
Most eroding types will need around 5 litres (ample) for two coats, & extra for all leading edges

269. Wet Hull
Posted on 23/1/2004 at 10:24:55 PM by Rob
A potential buyer buyer had my 1978 J22 surveyed and reported a wet hull other than suggest take it out of the water as the river makes it wet!!! is this serious (I think he is talking about water ingress into the hull laminate) any help appreciated.

Posted on 23/1/2004 at 11:11:16 PM by Laurie Milton
Neither, gel coat nor grp are impevious to water & water will over the years be taken up by these materials. It occurs in all grp boats to some degree. In itself, it's not too serious, & is measured by the surveyors moisture meter.
The science behind this is often referred to as "osmosis", although this is strictly incorrect, however it is held up as the "boogy man" of grp boats!In extremis, little blisters may form, whch may be localised or over a much wider area. It is treatable but is a long & expensive business, involving stripping the gel coat off, drying the laminate, & re gelcoating or epoxying the hull. Such a process, may be too expensive to recover in the value of a 22? And who heard of any craft sinking due to "osmosis"? It may? be best to leave well alone.
Did the surveyor think it excessive or problematic?
This can be a big subject, which I have only skimmed in the lightest way here.....

Posted on 23/1/2004 at 11:40:31 PM by Rob
Thanks Laurie, the buyer is going to let me have a copy of the report but apparently the meter went off the scale, she was for sale for £3k so I agree that any treatment is not cost effective. I don't think he thought it problematic in the near future but seemed to view it as a 5 year type of problem "buy for £500, sail her for a few years and scrap her" I daresay she will be afloat for some time beyond that!!. It was an issue to the buyer as he thought he would not be able to insure the boat with this problem. the boat stays in the water all year so would taking her out in the winter help to any extent? incendently he did identify seperatley a small area of osmosis which was not considered an issue, and certainley did not view her un sea worthy.

Posted on 24/1/2004 at 03:51:12 PM by Laurie Milton
It is essential you have a copy of the report, before proceeding; £3k is a middling to high price for any 22, & the hull moisture issue should be reflected in the price.......( or is she for sale @ £500?)
Keeping the boat in the water all year will have undoubtedly excerbated the problem.

Posted on 24/1/2004 at 01:23:04 AM by John Curtis
For what it is worth following are extracts from survey done on my Jag 25:
High moisture content is not generally a structural defect and is to be expected in older boats. However where some moisture has been absorbed the likelihood of moisture related problems occuring is higher, and the actual state of the laminate cannot be completely guaranteed without destructive testing followed by chemical analysis.
My boats results were "as one would expect in a vessel of this age" and "within accepted parameters" whatever they are! It goes on to say that always storing the yacht ashore out of season will contribute significantly to maintaining this condition
Is this any help?

Posted on 24/1/2004 at 12:15:50 PM by Rob
John Thanks for the contribution. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that its not that big an issue for sort of sailing expect from the boat. Other than taking simple preventative steps I will leave 'as is'

Posted on 24/1/2004 at 01:25:36 AM by Igor
My J22 is on the shore from last october to april this year. As I just bought it I discover things every time I'm working on the boat.
One thing is that the roof must be leaking. Everytime it's been raining there's about one bucket of water on the floor. I can't determine where it's coming from because it's between the inner and the outer scale.
I'm planning to get every screw out of the deck, put silicon in it an put the screw back. Are there common places to inspect in this matter? Will the silicon method help? Any comments??

Posted on 24/1/2004 at 12:18:13 PM by Rob
Ivor mine leaks through the hatch if the rain is in the wrong direction. Also check the windows, the seals if original will be dry and require replacing.